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Lessons for topic Compound Tenses

Making sense of the passato prossimo tense

In learning a new language, when we are able to latch onto parallels with our own language, it can be comforting, but sometimes we have to let go and realize things work differently in the new one. That is the case with il passato prossimo. It has a name that makes us think that this tense is about a past that isn't very far away, because prossimo (with its cognate "proximate") does mean "near," "next," "close," etc.).

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A different perspective

So when we learn that we use this tense to express things that have happened in the past and are already finished (as we use the simple past in English), it doesn't necessarily make sense. But let's look at it from another point of view. Let's look at it relatively. Because, although you can mostly get away with not using it, there is another past tense in Italian called il passato remoto. Here, too, we can detect the cognate remoto meaning "remote" or "far away." This is a simple tense in which the verb itself is conjugated. In general, it is used to express finished actions happening in the past that don't have any effect on the present. It means that there is a clear chronological and psychological distance between the fact expressed with the Passato Remoto and the present.

 

So compared to the passato remoto, the passato prossimo is closer, or less remote. 

 

The passato remoto itself is not within the scope of this lesson, but let's mention that even when the passato remoto would be the preferred tense, we can usually get away with using the passato prossimo  and lots of people do. 

 

The passato prossimo is a compound tense that takes an auxiliary verb (avere  or essere) and a past participle, but in a way, it is easier to use because we don't have to remember how to conjugate the verbs in the passato remoto. People will understand us and that's the most important thing. In addition to this, it's not always easy to know when to use the passato remoto. There are some grey areas.

 

Confusing names for tenses

The name "passato prossimo" refers to an action's place on a timeline. The name "present perfect," on the other hand, deals with the tense of the auxiliary verb we use ("to have" is used in the present tense in the present perfect). In the past perfect, the auxiliary verb is in the past tense. So the naming of the tenses has two different parameters, not to be compared.

 

Il Passato Prossimo can play a dual role

 

The passato prossimo can express past actions that are over and done with (as the simple past does in English). But can also coincide with the present perfect in some instances. 

 

To get an idea about when we use certain tenses, let's take a look at this video where two young women talk about their friendship. They talk about the past when they were in secondary school. They use the passato prossimo even though they are clearly talking about a time when they were younger. 

E poi, dopo la maturità, abbiamo deciso di partire da sole con altri sei ragazzi di [sic: della] classe e siamo andati a Malta.

And then, after graduation, we decided to leave on our own with six other kids from the class and we went to Malta.

Captions 28-30, Erica e Martina La nostra amicizia

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As we mentioned above, sometimes the passato prossimo does coincide with the present perfect, as in this comment about their continuing friendship. Note that there is an adverb of frequency.

Ci siamo trovate sempre molto bene, in questi sei anni non abbiamo mai litigato.

We've always gotten along really nicely — over these six years we've never argued.

Captions 46-47, Erica e Martina La nostra amicizia

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Perhaps the trickiest part

 

But here, in the following example, they use the present tense to express what in English, we would express using the present perfect. Note the use of da (since, for).

Siamo amiche da sei anni,

We've been friends for six years.

Caption 3, Erica e Martina La nostra amicizia

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The above use of the present tense in Italian to express a "present perfect" situation is perhaps one of the trickiest tense differences to wrap our heads around. And it's just as tricky for Italians trying to speak English!

 

The two young women go on with the present perfect to talk about the past. Here, we find fa (ago), putting the action clearly in the past. 

Ci siamo conosciute, appunto, sei anni fa, il primo giorno di scuola.

We met, in fact, six years ago, on the first day of school.

Captions 4-5, Erica e Martina La nostra amicizia

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If you are a subscriber it might be useful to watch the entire video to get a better feel for how the tenses are used. Looking at the transcript can help, too.

 

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Verb-Object Agreement in the Passato Prossimo

In most languages, there are situations in which two different sets of rules can apply. Sometimes it's because there are simply two valid ways of saying something. For instance, in English we can say:

There is none.

There isn't any.

They both mean the same thing and they are both correct. How to choose?

 

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Modal verb + infinitive + object pronoun(s)

 

In Italian, a case in point is when we have a modal verb, a verb in the infinitive, and a pronoun. I can attach the pronoun to the verb or I can separate it and change the word order. It's a matter of personal choice.

Vado a cercarlo.

Lo vado a cercare.

Non posso farlo.

No lo posso fare.

 

Evolution in speech over time

Some rules change over time because the rule gets broken so many times that it becomes acceptable to break it. One example of this in English is using "who" instead of "whom" when it's an object. In some cases we still use it, and it is absolutely correct, but in general conversation, people might look at you strangely or think you are a snob. We still use it when we have a preposition before it, as in business letters, for instance: "To whom it may concern."

In a recent episode of Provaci ancora prof!, there's another use that has become less common in everyday speech, but is nevertheless correct. This brand of agreement is what we call facoltativo (optional). The conversation between Renzo and Camilla seems like the perfect opportunity to shine a light on it.

 

Lo sai? -Lo so, ti ho vista.

You know? -I know. I saw you.

-Mi hai vista? -Sì, ti ho vista.

-You saw me? -Yes, I saw you.

Ero venuto lì per cercarti e ti ho vista.

I went there to look for you, and I saw you.

Captions 5-7, Provaci ancora prof! - S1E4 - La mia compagna di banco

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We're talking about the transitive verb vedere, which takes the auxiliary verb avere. The sentences are in the passato prossimo, thus we use the past participle of vedere. If we look at a conjugation chart, we will see that visto is the past participle, not vista! Vista is nowhere to be seen.

If you click on "play caption," you will hear that Renzo (the husband) is talking to his wife Camilla and then she answers. So what's the story with vista?

There's a rule that if the verb is in the passato prossimo, the past participle can agree in gender and number with the direct object pronoun. Read more about this (in Italian). 

So Renzo says Ti ho vista. Camilla is the direct object of vedere. If the roles were reversed, Camilla would say: T'ho visto because the pronoun would correspond to a male, her husband. This doesn't apply only to people. The pronoun might refer to a thing, but all nouns have gender in Italian.

 

A few more examples:

Ho visto le ragazze – Le ho viste = I have seen the girls – I have seen them
Ho sentito gli spari – Li ho sentiti = I have heard the shots – I have heard them

 

We should mention that Camilla is a professoressa of Italian and often plays sophisticated word games with her husband, so it makes sense for them to use correct Italian, and in fact, they sometimes get competitive about it. But normal people in everyday life often do not always make this choice and it's optional, so don't worry about it too much, but you might hear it. Still, it's nice to recognize it, right? And when you use it, you will feel proud and in the know.

In the same conversation, Renzo talks about seeing Camilla with Gaetano, the chief of police.

 

Non negare, vi ho visti.

Don't deny it, I saw you.

Caption 11, Provaci ancora prof! - S1E4 - La mia compagna di banco

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He could have said Vi ho visto, just as he could have said T'ho visto in the previous example.

As you watch Yabla videos, you will undoubtedly come across more examples of this construction. Feel free to point them out in the comments section.  

Meanwhile, check out these examples from a Yabla original video: 
 

Devo dire la verità, che io adoro la panzanella

I have to tell you the truth. I love panzanella

e sono una toscana DOC [di origine controllata],

and I'm a DOC [true] Tuscan,

ma non l'ho mai fatta!

but I have never made it.

Captions 12-14, In cucina con Arianna - la panzanella

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And another example, with another verb, from the same cooking video with Arianna:

 

L'ho sempre mangiata molto volentieri,

I have always really enjoyed eating it [I have always eaten it willingly]...

Caption 15, In cucina con Arianna - la panzanella

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